[seqfan] Re: Need suggestions for test for compatible sequences for "voice leading"

jean-paul allouche jean-paul.allouche at imj-prg.fr
Fri Dec 4 09:48:38 CET 2015


Dear all

Actually a more or less hidden question is the possible
link between "musical beauty" and "mathematical aesthetics".
IMHO there is no necessity of such a link (I wrote in some
ancient paper something about the fact that, to me, "musical
beauty" is something that could well be felt [almost] without
any background, contrarily to "mathematical aesthetics" which
is more a "linguistic beauty", which somehow consists of recognizing
structures and which needs an important background to be accessible).
Of course a musical piece/theme can have both "beauties" but there
is no need that these are linked. This is very far from making Neil's 
question
empty, but this means IMHO again that we have to choose between 
non-ambiguity,
hence to stay on the mathematical (thus non-musical) side, or ambiguity 
(thus
having a chance to slightly brush the musical aspect).

best wishes
jean-paul


Le 03/12/15 21:56, Allan Wechsler a écrit :
> The executive summary of classical voice-leading rules is that they are not
> well defined. To answer in more detail, one would have to read Fux's *Gradus
> ad Parnassum* very carefully, concentrating on his "first species" (note
> against note). In particular, there are rules that apply to just one voice,
> that is, rules of what makes a well-formed melody, which many perfectly
> comfortable melodies violate, and almost certainly most of our sequences
> (interpreted as half-step numbers?) also violate these well-formedness
> constraints.
>
> Fux was no mathematician, and his lack of rigor will almost certainly have
> you tearing your hair out.
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:47 PM, jean-paul allouche <
> jean-paul.allouche at imj-prg.fr> wrote:
>
>> Dear Bob, dear all
>>
>> Unfortunately I do not have examples from the top of my mind, this
>> can be a non-easy question (given that we look for musical beauty, not
>> mathematical aesthetics). A slightly related question was addressed
>> by Marc Chemillier in the 80's: given a score (actually a tablature) with
>> interleaving voices, can you automatically decide which one is the main
>> one, and which one(s) is (are) the accompanying parts, given that there
>> might be crossings (the main voice is not necssary the upper voice all
>> the time). I guess we cannot totally avoid ambiguities.
>>
>> best
>> jp
>>
>>
>> Le 03/12/15 20:34, Bob Selcoe a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Jean-Paul, Neil and Seqfans,
>>> Jean-Paul - assuming this is essentially Neil's question, then it's still
>>> not clear to me what needs to be avoided or accomplished.  Can you give two
>>> brief two-sequence "chords", one that is and one that is not "compatible",
>>> to illustrate the efficiency or parsimony you desire?  Others have
>>> correctly pointed out some of the basic ambiguities with Neil's question as
>>> posed; maybe some examples will clarify and get the ball rolling.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "jean-paul allouche" <jean-paul.allouche at imj-prg.fr>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 12:52 PM
>>> To: <seqfan at list.seqfan.eu>
>>> Subject: [seqfan] Re: Need suggestions for test for compatible sequences
>>> for "voice leading"
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>> A related (or is it the same?) question would be, once two reasonably
>>>> fitting sequences (or more) are found, to do voice leading, i.e., to
>>>> combine these sequences to build new sequences giving the same
>>>> "chords" but in a smoother manner (typically, e.g., to avoid crossing
>>>> hands
>>>> if playing the piano).
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>> jean-paul
>>>>
>>>> Le 03/12/15 17:19, Neil Sloane a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Seq Fans,
>>>>>
>>>>> In musical theory there is the concept of voice leading
>>>>> (see
>>>>> http://music.stackexchange.com/questions/14779/what-is-voice-leading )
>>>>>
>>>>> Question: suppose we made a series of two-note chords by combining two
>>>>> sequences A and B. Can one formulate a test to see which pairs of
>>>>> sequences
>>>>> (A,B) are compatible, i.e. satisfy the rules for voice leading?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil J. A. Sloane, President, OEIS Foundation.
>>>>> 11 South Adelaide Avenue, Highland Park, NJ 08904, USA.
>>>>> Also Visiting Scientist, Math. Dept., Rutgers University, Piscataway,
>>>>> NJ.
>>>>> Phone: 732 828 6098; home page: http://NeilSloane.com
>>>>> Email: njasloane at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Seqfan Mailing list - http://list.seqfan.eu/
>>>>>
>>>>
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