[seqfan] Re: Need suggestions for test for compatible sequences for "voice leading"

Bob Selcoe rselcoe at entouchonline.net
Fri Dec 4 08:04:09 CET 2015


Hi Allen, Jean-Paul, Neil and all,

As I mentioned before, IMHO this isn't the forum to address issues of 
voice-leading theory; but we can still make rules for multiple sequences 
which perhaps lend themselves to the metaphor of voicing-leading - all we 
have to do is decide what the rules are.  Obviously, what is considered 
aesthetically "pleasing" (mathematically) will not be uniformly shared; but 
first thing would be to figure out what we want the sequences actually to 
accomplish.  But please trust me on this: there is no point proceeding if we 
take the musical metaphor too seriously.  Many musicians (myself included) 
and composers scoff at the notion that such "rules" in compositional form 
and structure have any legitimacy whatsoever with respect to generalizable 
aesthetics (I won't bore you with details); but - I bet we can create 
agreed-upon multi-sequence rules loosely analogous to somebody's conception 
of "proper" voice-leading (or other types of musical "rules"), and see what 
happens - it might be fun!

Neil - you had mentioned a few sequences which you thought might be 
"compatible" (A5, A203, A6520) - I asked what you meant specifically by 
this, using just A203 and A6520 as an example (not sure if my question ever 
posted).  Your ideas might be a good launching point for generating some 
generally acceptable rules.

Cheers,
Bob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Allan Wechsler" <acwacw at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 2:56 PM
To: "Sequence Fanatics Discussion list" <seqfan at list.seqfan.eu>
Subject: [seqfan] Re: Need suggestions for test for compatible sequences for 
"voice leading"

> The executive summary of classical voice-leading rules is that they are 
> not
> well defined. To answer in more detail, one would have to read Fux's 
> *Gradus
> ad Parnassum* very carefully, concentrating on his "first species" (note
> against note). In particular, there are rules that apply to just one 
> voice,
> that is, rules of what makes a well-formed melody, which many perfectly
> comfortable melodies violate, and almost certainly most of our sequences
> (interpreted as half-step numbers?) also violate these well-formedness
> constraints.
>
> Fux was no mathematician, and his lack of rigor will almost certainly have
> you tearing your hair out.
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:47 PM, jean-paul allouche <
> jean-paul.allouche at imj-prg.fr> wrote:
>
>> Dear Bob, dear all
>>
>> Unfortunately I do not have examples from the top of my mind, this
>> can be a non-easy question (given that we look for musical beauty, not
>> mathematical aesthetics). A slightly related question was addressed
>> by Marc Chemillier in the 80's: given a score (actually a tablature) with
>> interleaving voices, can you automatically decide which one is the main
>> one, and which one(s) is (are) the accompanying parts, given that there
>> might be crossings (the main voice is not necssary the upper voice all
>> the time). I guess we cannot totally avoid ambiguities.
>>
>> best
>> jp
>>
>>
>> Le 03/12/15 20:34, Bob Selcoe a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Jean-Paul, Neil and Seqfans,
>>>
>>> Jean-Paul - assuming this is essentially Neil's question, then it's 
>>> still
>>> not clear to me what needs to be avoided or accomplished.  Can you give 
>>> two
>>> brief two-sequence "chords", one that is and one that is not 
>>> "compatible",
>>> to illustrate the efficiency or parsimony you desire?  Others have
>>> correctly pointed out some of the basic ambiguities with Neil's question 
>>> as
>>> posed; maybe some examples will clarify and get the ball rolling.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "jean-paul allouche" <jean-paul.allouche at imj-prg.fr>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 12:52 PM
>>> To: <seqfan at list.seqfan.eu>
>>> Subject: [seqfan] Re: Need suggestions for test for compatible sequences
>>> for "voice leading"
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>>
>>>> A related (or is it the same?) question would be, once two reasonably
>>>> fitting sequences (or more) are found, to do voice leading, i.e., to
>>>> combine these sequences to build new sequences giving the same
>>>> "chords" but in a smoother manner (typically, e.g., to avoid crossing
>>>> hands
>>>> if playing the piano).
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>> jean-paul
>>>>
>>>> Le 03/12/15 17:19, Neil Sloane a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Seq Fans,
>>>>>
>>>>> In musical theory there is the concept of voice leading
>>>>> (see
>>>>> http://music.stackexchange.com/questions/14779/what-is-voice-leading )
>>>>>
>>>>> Question: suppose we made a series of two-note chords by combining two
>>>>> sequences A and B. Can one formulate a test to see which pairs of
>>>>> sequences
>>>>> (A,B) are compatible, i.e. satisfy the rules for voice leading?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil J. A. Sloane, President, OEIS Foundation.
>>>>> 11 South Adelaide Avenue, Highland Park, NJ 08904, USA.
>>>>> Also Visiting Scientist, Math. Dept., Rutgers University, Piscataway,
>>>>> NJ.
>>>>> Phone: 732 828 6098; home page: http://NeilSloane.com
>>>>> Email: njasloane at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Seqfan Mailing list - http://list.seqfan.eu/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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